MPs reject EU treaty referendum

[Steve Gardner]

This really belongs tagged on the end of this thread but I started a new one so the thread title reflected the gravity of what's happened.

Source: BBC

MPs have rejected proposals to hold a UK-wide referendum on whether to ratify the EU's Lisbon Treaty.

The House of Commons rejected the Conservative proposal by 311 votes to 248 votes following a six-hour debate.

The result means Parliament itself will decide whether to ratify the treaty, signed by EU leaders last December.

Thirteen Lib Dem MPs rebelled against the party's orders to abstain on the referendum vote, with three frontbench spokesmen resigning their posts.

MPs rejected the Conservative amendment to the EU (Amendment) Bill by 63. It is not yet known how many rebels there were among Labour and Conservative MPs.

Manifestos

All EU parliaments must ratify the treaty before it can come into force. The only country which has committed to a referendum is Ireland.

All three of the main UK political parties promised a public vote on the EU Constitution in their 2005 general election manifestos.

But the constitution was rejected by the French and Dutch electorates later that year. The Lisbon Treaty was drawn up to replace it.

The government and the Lib Dems say the treaty does not have constitutional implications, so a referendum on it is not needed.

The government says most changes are minor and procedural and it has secured "opt-outs" where necessary.

Month-long debate

But the Conservatives, some Labour and Lib Dem MPs and the UK Independence Party among others, say that it is effectively the constitution under a different name - so there should be a referendum.

The Lib Dem leadership, which instead wants a referendum on whether the UK should stay within the EU, ordered its MPs to abstain in the Tory-led debate.

But 13 refused to do so, instead voting for a referendum on the treaty.

Scottish affairs spokesman Alistair Carmichael, countryside spokesman Tim Farron and justice spokesman David Heath resigned from the Lib Dem frontbench team.

MPs have been debating the different elements of the treaty over the past month.

[teddy]

I think this is a disgrace personally. Slowly but surely we are giving up our own political system and handing over the powers to a centralised European system of government. I don't believe that this should be a decision left in the hands of politicians - it is a decision for the public whose political system is being changed. It's not a simple matter of raising taxes or increasing health spending after all. This, to me, is a clear indication that Blair and Brown, while appearing to resist Europe in some ways by not joining the EURO, all along were scheming to hand over political power to Europe. Let's not forget that Blair is putting himself forward to be the European leader.

Both Blair and Brown are Fabians. That means they make changes slowly, so slowly that you don't really notice it happening. They are the opposite of Marxist Leninists in that sense. In the end, they have an agenda that is hidden and they are working towards it slowly.

Whether this is a step in the direction of the New World Order, I cannot say, but it is clear to me that everything seems to be pointing in that direction.

[Steve Gardner]

Aside from being irritated by what I consider to be a wholly unsatisfactory U-turn by Brown, I was really surprised/annoyed/baffled by Nick Clegg's order to Liberal Democrat MPs that they abstain on threat of dismissal.

If there was any party guaranteed a free vote it should be the LibDems.

As far as I'm concerned, their abstention was as a good as a vote against a referendum.

Shame on you, Clegg.

[teddy]

Yeah, so much for the Lib Dems - I don't know much about their policies to be honest, but I now know they are not libertarians!